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	<title>Comments on: Gospel First</title>
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	<link>http://forgodsfame.org/2008/04/21/gospel-first/</link>
	<description>Spreading the fame of God by reaching, building, and equipping people in the character and priorities of Christ.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:40:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: guiroo</title>
		<link>http://forgodsfame.org/2008/04/21/gospel-first/#comment-5531</link>
		<dc:creator>guiroo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 04:42:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://forGodsfame.org/2008/04/21/gospel-first/#comment-5531</guid>
		<description>P.S. Articulating the Gospel involves making a truth claim. No unbeliever will let you get away without demanding one from you — especially Larry King.

If you are sharing your testimony make sure that you are making it very clear that Jesus is not just something that works for you. That is too often and easily assumed as everyone loves a good redeeming spiritual story — ala Oprah.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S. Articulating the Gospel involves making a truth claim. No unbeliever will let you get away without demanding one from you — especially Larry King.</p>
<p>If you are sharing your testimony make sure that you are making it very clear that Jesus is not just something that works for you. That is too often and easily assumed as everyone loves a good redeeming spiritual story — ala Oprah.</p>
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		<title>By: guiroo</title>
		<link>http://forgodsfame.org/2008/04/21/gospel-first/#comment-5530</link>
		<dc:creator>guiroo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 04:36:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://forGodsfame.org/2008/04/21/gospel-first/#comment-5530</guid>
		<description>Our ability to articulately share the Gospel and defend the faith is important because it is what distinguishes us from every other world view. It must be done and it must be done well.

I view our good works and testimony as serving the same purpose as Jesus' miracles did.

You can talk a good talk, "Your sins are forgiven", but until you have something to show for it, say something like healing the lame, they are just empty words. The testimony of your life and works must be done and they must be done well if anyone is going to listen to your Gospel.

Here is where I think the LDS beat the American evangelical church hands down. Though armed with a false gospel, they have a balanced approach to equipping followers to be able to articulate their world view and be a shining moral example.

@Larry: Granted these are Gators we are talking about, but the post-modern world has plenty of answers waiting when the questions are honestly asked, is the church to offer one answer and say "take it or leave it"? I think the ostrich church is how our culture got to where it's at in the first place.

http://str.typepad.com/weblog/2008/04/top-3-questions.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our ability to articulately share the Gospel and defend the faith is important because it is what distinguishes us from every other world view. It must be done and it must be done well.</p>
<p>I view our good works and testimony as serving the same purpose as Jesus&#8217; miracles did.</p>
<p>You can talk a good talk, &#8220;Your sins are forgiven&#8221;, but until you have something to show for it, say something like healing the lame, they are just empty words. The testimony of your life and works must be done and they must be done well if anyone is going to listen to your Gospel.</p>
<p>Here is where I think the LDS beat the American evangelical church hands down. Though armed with a false gospel, they have a balanced approach to equipping followers to be able to articulate their world view and be a shining moral example.</p>
<p>@Larry: Granted these are Gators we are talking about, but the post-modern world has plenty of answers waiting when the questions are honestly asked, is the church to offer one answer and say &#8220;take it or leave it&#8221;? I think the ostrich church is how our culture got to where it&#8217;s at in the first place.</p>
<p><a href="http://str.typepad.com/weblog/2008/04/top-3-questions.html" rel="nofollow">http://str.typepad.com/weblog/2008/04/top-3-questions.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Hugh Williams</title>
		<link>http://forgodsfame.org/2008/04/21/gospel-first/#comment-5527</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:48:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://forGodsfame.org/2008/04/21/gospel-first/#comment-5527</guid>
		<description>CAN...

Depending on whom you observe, there may be more or less proof of God's working...

That's the difference between &lt;em&gt;knowing&lt;/em&gt; and &lt;em&gt;showing&lt;/em&gt;. You &lt;em&gt;know&lt;/em&gt; God's work in your life because it's &lt;em&gt;your&lt;/em&gt; life. That doesn't prove anything to somebody who isn't &lt;em&gt;you&lt;/em&gt;, and let's face it, we can even deceive ourselves. I'm sure Mormons and Muslims and all kinds of people can tell their stories.

The evidence of change in someone's life can be one part of &lt;em&gt;showing&lt;/em&gt; the truth of the Gospel, but it can't be the only part (and I would say it can't be the main part). The incredible thing about Christianity is that it is bolted to a reality that is external to all of us, which means it's not a "true for you" sort of thing -- it's true for everybody.

Like Francis Schaeffer said... "There is only one reason to be a Christian: because it’s true."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CAN&#8230;</p>
<p>Depending on whom you observe, there may be more or less proof of God&#8217;s working&#8230;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the difference between <em>knowing</em> and <em>showing</em>. You <em>know</em> God&#8217;s work in your life because it&#8217;s <em>your</em> life. That doesn&#8217;t prove anything to somebody who isn&#8217;t <em>you</em>, and let&#8217;s face it, we can even deceive ourselves. I&#8217;m sure Mormons and Muslims and all kinds of people can tell their stories.</p>
<p>The evidence of change in someone&#8217;s life can be one part of <em>showing</em> the truth of the Gospel, but it can&#8217;t be the only part (and I would say it can&#8217;t be the main part). The incredible thing about Christianity is that it is bolted to a reality that is external to all of us, which means it&#8217;s not a &#8220;true for you&#8221; sort of thing &#8212; it&#8217;s true for everybody.</p>
<p>Like Francis Schaeffer said&#8230; &#8220;There is only one reason to be a Christian: because it’s true.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: CAN</title>
		<link>http://forgodsfame.org/2008/04/21/gospel-first/#comment-5525</link>
		<dc:creator>CAN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:26:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://forGodsfame.org/2008/04/21/gospel-first/#comment-5525</guid>
		<description>"The gospel is what God did but also what he is doing. The pinnacle was indeed on Calvary 2000 years ago, but he has risen and is working today"

Here Here!

Our lives and the change is supernatural proof of God's workings in 2008!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The gospel is what God did but also what he is doing. The pinnacle was indeed on Calvary 2000 years ago, but he has risen and is working today&#8221;</p>
<p>Here Here!</p>
<p>Our lives and the change is supernatural proof of God&#8217;s workings in 2008!</p>
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		<title>By: ORyan</title>
		<link>http://forgodsfame.org/2008/04/21/gospel-first/#comment-5503</link>
		<dc:creator>ORyan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:50:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://forGodsfame.org/2008/04/21/gospel-first/#comment-5503</guid>
		<description>Moon for rebuttal.  If the idea expressed in this blog is to make sure you give the gospel and apologetics are second; a defense of the faith is not the necessary component.  A clear and concise picture of the gospel is what you want to get across.  Everyone knows what Jesus did in their lives so, if you find yourself flat footed, you always have something to say because that is how we have all experienced the gospel first hand.  And, a testimony that presents the gospel as God, sin, atonement, repentance, and redemption within your own story has gone beyond a history lesson and now has wheels as Paul did before Agrippa.  I am not advocating a substitute for what the gospel is but a method that is easily accessible to all Christians.  It may not be the best play but never the wrong play.

The gospel is what God did but also what he is doing.  The pinnacle was indeed on Calvary 2000 years ago, but he has risen and is working today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Moon for rebuttal.  If the idea expressed in this blog is to make sure you give the gospel and apologetics are second; a defense of the faith is not the necessary component.  A clear and concise picture of the gospel is what you want to get across.  Everyone knows what Jesus did in their lives so, if you find yourself flat footed, you always have something to say because that is how we have all experienced the gospel first hand.  And, a testimony that presents the gospel as God, sin, atonement, repentance, and redemption within your own story has gone beyond a history lesson and now has wheels as Paul did before Agrippa.  I am not advocating a substitute for what the gospel is but a method that is easily accessible to all Christians.  It may not be the best play but never the wrong play.</p>
<p>The gospel is what God did but also what he is doing.  The pinnacle was indeed on Calvary 2000 years ago, but he has risen and is working today.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://forgodsfame.org/2008/04/21/gospel-first/#comment-5499</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:52:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://forGodsfame.org/2008/04/21/gospel-first/#comment-5499</guid>
		<description>When the Bible says 'fool' it doesn't mean someone devoid of intelligence necessarily, its more of a statment of fact regarding their approach to life than a slam against their intellect.  One who goes after his own way and rejects God's way is foolish given the reality of who God is and what the consequences are of rejecting Him.  Since the modern meaning of 'fool' is somewhat different than that I would agree that we don't approach people who claim to be atheists by calling them fools.

I also agree with you where personal testimonies are concerned.  As I heard the guys at the White Horse Inn say once, the gospel is what God did, not what you experienced (or something to that effect).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When the Bible says &#8216;fool&#8217; it doesn&#8217;t mean someone devoid of intelligence necessarily, its more of a statment of fact regarding their approach to life than a slam against their intellect.  One who goes after his own way and rejects God&#8217;s way is foolish given the reality of who God is and what the consequences are of rejecting Him.  Since the modern meaning of &#8216;fool&#8217; is somewhat different than that I would agree that we don&#8217;t approach people who claim to be atheists by calling them fools.</p>
<p>I also agree with you where personal testimonies are concerned.  As I heard the guys at the White Horse Inn say once, the gospel is what God did, not what you experienced (or something to that effect).</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh Williams</title>
		<link>http://forgodsfame.org/2008/04/21/gospel-first/#comment-5496</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:52:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://forGodsfame.org/2008/04/21/gospel-first/#comment-5496</guid>
		<description>@Larry:

“If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost; you can still call him vile names.” -- Elbert Hubbard

I want to be very careful about playing the "atheists are fools" card (&lt;a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=ps%2014" rel="nofollow"&gt;Psalm 14:1&lt;/a&gt; &lt;i&gt;et al&lt;/i&gt;.) When someone hears a Christian dismiss as a fool someone as intelligent as Bertrand Russell or Ayn Rand or &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_atheists" rel="nofollow"&gt;countless others&lt;/a&gt;, it makes it look like the best defense Christianity can muster is name-calling.

However, a charitable atheist will let the &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem" rel="nofollow"&gt;&lt;i&gt;ad hominem&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt; fallacy slide. Instead, he will, &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_fortiori" rel="nofollow"&gt;&lt;i&gt;a fortiori&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt;, criticize you for &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question" rel="nofollow"&gt;begging the question&lt;/a&gt;: If, in fact, there &lt;strong&gt;is&lt;/strong&gt; no God, then Psalm 14:1 has no authority to declare anyone a fool.

So while I agree with you that the scripture is our final authority, I think we must recognize that our primary source of knowledge to that effect is the Spirit's work of regeneration in our lives. When speaking to those who don't enjoy the benefits of regeneration, we have to &lt;em&gt;show&lt;/em&gt; it to them so that they can &lt;em&gt;see&lt;/em&gt; that they are "without excuse" (literally, "without an apologetic") before a holy God. In this way, I think the creation's testimony to God's existence ("natural theology") functions much like the law does: it convicts, but cannot save.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Larry:</p>
<p>“If you can&#8217;t answer a man&#8217;s arguments, all is not lost; you can still call him vile names.” &#8212; Elbert Hubbard</p>
<p>I want to be very careful about playing the &#8220;atheists are fools&#8221; card (<a href="http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=ps%2014" rel="nofollow">Psalm 14:1</a> <i>et al</i>.) When someone hears a Christian dismiss as a fool someone as intelligent as Bertrand Russell or Ayn Rand or <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_atheists" rel="nofollow">countless others</a>, it makes it look like the best defense Christianity can muster is name-calling.</p>
<p>However, a charitable atheist will let the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem" rel="nofollow"><i>ad hominem</i></a> fallacy slide. Instead, he will, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_fortiori" rel="nofollow"><i>a fortiori</i></a>, criticize you for <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question" rel="nofollow">begging the question</a>: If, in fact, there <strong>is</strong> no God, then Psalm 14:1 has no authority to declare anyone a fool.</p>
<p>So while I agree with you that the scripture is our final authority, I think we must recognize that our primary source of knowledge to that effect is the Spirit&#8217;s work of regeneration in our lives. When speaking to those who don&#8217;t enjoy the benefits of regeneration, we have to <em>show</em> it to them so that they can <em>see</em> that they are &#8220;without excuse&#8221; (literally, &#8220;without an apologetic&#8221;) before a holy God. In this way, I think the creation&#8217;s testimony to God&#8217;s existence (&#8221;natural theology&#8221;) functions much like the law does: it convicts, but cannot save.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh Williams</title>
		<link>http://forgodsfame.org/2008/04/21/gospel-first/#comment-5495</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:12:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://forGodsfame.org/2008/04/21/gospel-first/#comment-5495</guid>
		<description>@O'Ryan:

Testimonies can be powerful, but the one big problem with "telling your story" is this: the reason no one will argue against your experience is that no one &lt;em&gt;can&lt;/em&gt; argue against your experience. For that matter, no one &lt;em&gt;needs&lt;/em&gt; to argue against your experience because &lt;em&gt;you&lt;/em&gt; aren't the authority. Defending &lt;em&gt;your&lt;/em&gt; faith isn't the same as defending &lt;em&gt;the&lt;/em&gt; faith.

Still: without a doubt, personal testimony is a powerful evangelistic tool -- so long as it's the "frosting on the cake" and not the cake itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@O&#8217;Ryan:</p>
<p>Testimonies can be powerful, but the one big problem with &#8220;telling your story&#8221; is this: the reason no one will argue against your experience is that no one <em>can</em> argue against your experience. For that matter, no one <em>needs</em> to argue against your experience because <em>you</em> aren&#8217;t the authority. Defending <em>your</em> faith isn&#8217;t the same as defending <em>the</em> faith.</p>
<p>Still: without a doubt, personal testimony is a powerful evangelistic tool &#8212; so long as it&#8217;s the &#8220;frosting on the cake&#8221; and not the cake itself.</p>
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		<title>By: ORyan</title>
		<link>http://forgodsfame.org/2008/04/21/gospel-first/#comment-5494</link>
		<dc:creator>ORyan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://forGodsfame.org/2008/04/21/gospel-first/#comment-5494</guid>
		<description>Thanks Hugh, this is very profound.  I know I would happily discuss textual criticism with people and forget to tell them we are all sinners and subject to God's Justice.

This also gives people who don't know all the great reasons to be a christian a foot hold to talk to someone who is either apathetic, or hostile to the faith.  If you are uncertain how to articulate the gospel, tell your own story.  As Christians we know first hand what the gospel has done in our lives.  I think this gives you a couple advantages to begin with.  First, no one will argue against your experience.  Second, it is compelling because the human condition is that we are all rebels and have the sense that we have not lived up to God's standard and, something is wrong in this world.  If they can see the person you are now is not just different but changed, they know something happened.  Third, you can't mess it up.  It is your story.  Nobody knows it better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Hugh, this is very profound.  I know I would happily discuss textual criticism with people and forget to tell them we are all sinners and subject to God&#8217;s Justice.</p>
<p>This also gives people who don&#8217;t know all the great reasons to be a christian a foot hold to talk to someone who is either apathetic, or hostile to the faith.  If you are uncertain how to articulate the gospel, tell your own story.  As Christians we know first hand what the gospel has done in our lives.  I think this gives you a couple advantages to begin with.  First, no one will argue against your experience.  Second, it is compelling because the human condition is that we are all rebels and have the sense that we have not lived up to God&#8217;s standard and, something is wrong in this world.  If they can see the person you are now is not just different but changed, they know something happened.  Third, you can&#8217;t mess it up.  It is your story.  Nobody knows it better.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://forgodsfame.org/2008/04/21/gospel-first/#comment-5492</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:18:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://forGodsfame.org/2008/04/21/gospel-first/#comment-5492</guid>
		<description>Hugh, this is a good point.  My personal opinion is that, while interesting, apologetics focused on the existence of God shouldn't take up much of our time really (at least from a ministry perspective).

The scriptures put no effort at all into proving God's existence, it is assumed from the very first verse.  The only interaction the Bible has with people we would call atheists is to call them fools (Psalm 14:1, 53:1). 

Paul tells us in Romans 1 that people disbelieve God because they are suppressing the truth about Him due to their wickedness.  In other words, the problem is not a lack of knowledge or want of a good logical argument, the problem with someone who denies God is their sin.  The only solution for that is the Gospel.  

I'm not suggesting we should just ignore "I don't believe in God" if its given to us as an objection when taking to someone about Christ but I do think pointing out how God has revealed Himself all around us in nature, etc. is a sufficient response (it's after all Paul's response to such an attitude in Romans 1).  If the Holy Spirit is drawing them, it will be enough, if He is not, no amount of scientific data will be enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hugh, this is a good point.  My personal opinion is that, while interesting, apologetics focused on the existence of God shouldn&#8217;t take up much of our time really (at least from a ministry perspective).</p>
<p>The scriptures put no effort at all into proving God&#8217;s existence, it is assumed from the very first verse.  The only interaction the Bible has with people we would call atheists is to call them fools (Psalm 14:1, 53:1). </p>
<p>Paul tells us in Romans 1 that people disbelieve God because they are suppressing the truth about Him due to their wickedness.  In other words, the problem is not a lack of knowledge or want of a good logical argument, the problem with someone who denies God is their sin.  The only solution for that is the Gospel.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not suggesting we should just ignore &#8220;I don&#8217;t believe in God&#8221; if its given to us as an objection when taking to someone about Christ but I do think pointing out how God has revealed Himself all around us in nature, etc. is a sufficient response (it&#8217;s after all Paul&#8217;s response to such an attitude in Romans 1).  If the Holy Spirit is drawing them, it will be enough, if He is not, no amount of scientific data will be enough.</p>
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