I was only trying to get a clearer definition of what is “walking in sin” and what is “committing sin”. Living in it vs. falling into it. Again how do we know the difference and where is the scale if we want to even try to know the difference?

A one time event? Once a week? I hear the term “a pattern”, but again how much is a pattern and how much is just having a bad day and falling into sin every so often?

It can drive you crazy to try and wrap your mind around this, and is why I came to the conclusion if it really matters at all to try to.

Sin is sin against God. I will personalize the last line of my last entry to again say that I have confidence in my own state based on nothing I did to deserve it, and I will constantly lift up others to Christ or back to Christ, and not base how I treat them on whether I think their level of sin or lack thereof validates their conversion.

They need Jesus. Either come back to Him or get right with Him. Right now. But that is not for me to decide or know their state in the kingdom. Just point them toward Jesus, and let them see Him in you.

I think repentance is a direction not a position. To me the blog seemed to say you would not walk in sin, not that you would never commit sin again. Walking in sin is when a sin is way of life. Christians will not walk in sin. Not that they won’t do wrong, but that they will try to not do it anymore. We recognize sin is a rebellion against our creator and if we love him we do as he commands. I think if you call yourself a christian, and you don’t give a rip about how you are hurting yourself, hurting others, or offending God through your own sins, you should question your conversion. I don’t think the idea is to judge others fit for the kingdom but for us to judge ourselves.

Saint Paul seems to advocate running the race to win. To beat your body into submission. I will not allow anything to master me. Prove what is good. His example does not seem like a guy trying to slide into heaven with a “I believe in faith alone” attitude.

I think your last paragraph is the point. Work out your salvation with fear and trembling, submit your self to one another and constantly lift up others to Christ or back to Christ. This seems to me to be repentance in a Christians life.

The wife beater for Jesus is an extreme example and I agree there should be some crystal clear change with remorse and a call for help in such a circumstance.

But you would not say this guy would never lose his temper again right? So if you witnessed that happen would you just blanketly say that person’s conversion was not genuine?

How many episodes would it take or how long without this happening would convince you either way? That is my point. There is no scale.

This blog talked about a genuine believer would never fall back into former sins but maybe touch on them for a time and always come out of it. We cannot wrap our hands around the scale to tell the two apart with intent or timeframes so why try to analyze it so deeply?

It will only cause us to excuse sinful behavior as a potentially non genuine conversion, and for us as believers constant thoughts of if we are truly His if have a sin in our lives we struggle with.

Self examination is crucial, but for me I have full trust in what Christ did for me. I did not do anything to merit His grace, and there is nothing I can do sustain it. I am His or I am not His. Sure there are indicators we should be concerned with but ultimately we must leave it to God to know other’s true state in the Kingdom, have confidence in our own state based on nothing we did to deserve it, and constantly lift up others to Christ or back to Christ.

The forgiveness of our sin comes at a price. God had to die in his humanity. We are given a gift to know God. As a result of this gift, I think we are called to be a fuzzy reflection of what we will be after the resurrection.

Surely, you cannot come to Jesus as a wife beater and then just be a wife beater for Jesus. Seems to me the idea is not that we are perfect but we are better than we were. We turn from pursuing sin and pursue Jesus.

Verses: the book of 1 Corinthians, a church claiming Christ but living like there was no God or Judge.

a) Changing your mind

or

b) A commitment to changing your ways before you can be saved?

You mentioned a change of mind, and is where I stand, but you would also believe that God changes our minds based the “I” in TULIP…correct?

So then could this be considered “irresistible repentance”?

To me option “b” is much like saying a prayer and walking the isle. Just idle words in our own power and impossible for a unbeliever to make that kind if commitment without Christ first. I do believe a genuine conversion produces a genuine desire for commitment and service, love for other believers, and also a new spirit filled conscience and instant remorse for sin as this is my personal experience. I have some verses on this, but this is strictly an opinion I formed over the years. I also have no scale of what that level of desire of commitment is or should be as I do not think that scale exists.

So can we be born again (or to convince others to believe we are) based on a verbal or mental commitment to follow Christ in (possibly) our own power, or from the Spirit moving in us to realize our sinful state and need of a savior and believing if His payment for that sin? The mustard seed.

I am seriously asking as I am interested in your opinions.

Thanks!

YBIC….

You Wrote….

“Such as have truly repented of sin do never return unto the practice of it, so as to live in a course of sin, as they did before; and where any, after repentance, do return unto a course of sin, it is an evident sign that their repentance was not of the right kind.”

“Never Return to the practice of that sin”? 100% deliverance since we make a commitment when we trusted Christ? Was it really our power when we trusted Christ or now Christ working in and through us? When we sin is that not us not allowing the Spirit to work and letting our flesh take control?

This seems to go back the the “scale” method I have used before.

Where is the scale of when someone has fallen into temptation as opposed to back into the sin full blown, and who sets the legitimate timeframe of them “getting up again”?

How does the scale tip one way other another, and we are supposed to be concerned with this to judge others genuine faith, our just for self examination?

Can you please provide some verses to back up this idea you have put out here as I cannot find it anywhere other than verses about completely falling away. There has to be more to this than just using the “P” in TULIP.

The danger to me in this would seem that we can find an easy excuse when people are in/fall into deep sin. We say to them directly if being counseled or to others that wonder…… “Oh….they are not really believers if they do that or do this”. Seems too easy of an excuse to me.

Again, who owns the scale, and so any of us know how to read that scale? If not why bother trying so hard to do so?

For me it is just to love and encourage this person out of this sin and let God be the one to ultimately know this person’s true state as a follower of Christ, instead of potentially shooting the wounded and eating our young.

If this is a theory, then please put it out there as such and let’s discuss it further as this seems like over analyzing just a bit and turning us all into judges on a high platforms looking down on the masses, when we all should be down among the masses lifting them up and giving God the glory.